Template talk:MassText

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Possible refinements


Of the various text templates, only this template uses "Please refer to.." construct, while the others use "Original text and translations...". Also, instead of ", or" it would be better English language style to make the two clauses separate sentences. I would suggest something along the lines of:

For information, refer to the Mass page. For texts and translations, see the individual pages:

KyrieGloriaCredoSanctus & BenedictusAgnus Dei


For information, refer to the Requiem page. For texts and translations, see the individual pages:

IntroitusKyrieTractusSequentiaOffertoriumSanctus & BenedictusAgnus DeiCommunio

I do like the bulletted separations and the two line format. I've indented the individual page listings for comparison, although another possibility might be to center the second line in each case (I think indenting looks better). Putting "For information" and "For texts and translations" first in each sentence is better, both stylistically (parallel construction) and for announcing from the outset the purpose of each sentence.

Many thanks to Carlos for updating this template.

On a different note, I think that the Sanctus & Benedictus pages should be combined, given the rarity of separate (stand alone) compositions of either (or both) movements. What do others think?

Hi Chuck, I liked your suggestion, in fact the phrase was becoming too long with all those links, especially after I added the "for information" part. The indentation is also fine (that final dot was left over by mistake). I hope you will be able to help with the links to the text pages: do they look better all in Latin or should the ones that have an English translation use it (Tract, Introt, Communion etc.)? Another thing that confused me was that on wikipedia the text for the Tractus is said to be Absolve, Domine instead of Sicut cervus, is it correct? And what about also adding a Gradual after the Kyrie (not sure if there are any settings of Gradual on CPDL). Thanks —Carlos Email.gif 13:39, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Reply by: Chucktalk Giffen 14:43, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


I like using the Latin forms instead of the English forms. I think the text of the Tractus (Tract) was changed at some point, so that one has either the original Sicut cervus or the modern Absolve appearing, depending upon the time period.

Actually, Absolve goes back to the 11th century (hence the rather gloomy text), whereas the more hopeful Sicut cervus is more recent. joachim 18:03, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
OK, then in the case of CPDL the old Tractus is the one that probably appears on the masses. Chuck, you know this subject much better than I, please go ahead and implement the suggested changes! —Carlos Email.gif 17:43, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Reply by: Philip LeggeΦ talk 12:41, 9 May 2009 (AEST)


The standardisation of texts for the Propers of the Requiem mass was an outcome of the Tridentine Council; so roughly after the late 1550s, you no longer see variant texts in polyphonic Requiem masses. There's an early Lassus requiem which is probably one of the last to be written with a variant Tractus. I can see why the Graduale has been left off the template, since it's a redundant link to the same page as the Introitus, but shouldn't it be there for the sake of completeness?

One might argue for the inclusion of Ite, missa est in the ordinary form of {{MassText}} – probably in small text – since there are mass settings including this part of the Ordinary. I've in fact just composed such a movement to cap off someone else's mass setting! :)

I think it would be less confusing to list the Requiem propers by their textpage names. This would also allow for variants, since this is a one-size-fits-all template. At present, if I click on Tractus, I get a redirect to Sicut cervus with no explanation, and bypass Absolve, Domine, which is less than fair to the newbies :-D The gradual Requiem has the same antiphon text as the introit, but of course the verse is different and might as well be spelt out on the Requiem aeternam text page. Btw, the Gregorian chant page is currently in flux. Richard Mix 23:40, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Elevation motets & other frills

There are a number of mostly French masses that include additional motets. I just looked at Messe a 8 vois et 8 violons et flutes (H.3) (Marc-Antoine Charpentier) and added it to the text page Domine salvum fac which must, like O salutaris hostia, be missing more entries. Is there a way to add these without a separate LinkText template, but that would include them in the TextAutoList line? This might also solve the Requiem problem discussed above. Richard Mix (talk) 05:00, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi Richard, the template was changed as you suggested. Now it accepts up to three extra parameters, and lists the work in the appropriate text pages. —Carlos (talk) 14:27, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
Belated thanks! Can there also be a way to subtract movements from Kyrie-less Sarum masses like Missa Lapidaverunt Stephanum (Nicholas Ludford) or Gloria-less ferial masses like Messe basse (Gabriel Fauré)? (I'm starting to realize this last work has a lot to do with Messe des pêcheurs de Villerville (André Messager and Gabriel Fauré)!) Richard Mix (talk) 20:57, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Hi Richard, this is certainly possible! I just need to know which movements can be hidden and which ones are mandatory. You cited Kyrie and Gloria. Any other hideable movement that comes to your mind? —Carlos (talk) 21:08, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
This feature is now implemented, please check the template documentation. Regards, —Carlos (talk) 04:23, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Looks great, thanks! I can think offhand of Isaac's Credo-less masses, the replacement of Benedictus by Elevations (routine in France), and of course fragmentarily preserved works that lost their closing pages; maybe Sanctus is mandatory though ;-) Richard Mix (talk) 23:03, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

I just had the thought that "•" belongs to the beginning of the following item: Missa Brevis (Dietrich Buxtehude) has a hanging dot. Richard Mix (talk) 23:15, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Oh, I knew that the bullets would present us some extra work, depending on the combination of movements chosen. Will see what I can do about it. —Carlos (talk) 14:42, 19 September 2018 (UTC)


There's always one more request, it seems: can it be made possible to insert the additional parameters in a specific order, i. e. Elevation between Sanctus and Benedictus at Messe des morts à 4 voix, H. 7 (Marc-Antoine Charpentier)? Richard Mix (talk) 23:27, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi Richard, I've been thinking of a way to implement what you ask, but I haven't come up with any good idea yet. Will keep trying! —Carlos (talk) 01:33, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
I don't completely understand the code, but is it possible to have items that are suppressed by default? The rarely set Gradual Requiem with verse In memoria would then have to be invoked by |G=+ and besides other place-holders, there could be 2 Tracts, with |T1=+|T2=- for Sicut cervus. Richard Mix (talk) 05:37, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I think it can be done. Is it the Gloria that is omitted? The Tracts part is not clear to me. You want to replace the current Sicut cervus with another one? I see in Requiem that Absolve, Domine is another option. Are there others? —Carlos (talk) 20:04, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
Gloria is always omitted in Requiem, but maybe Gr is a better abbreviation for Gradual! The 2 main Tracts seem to be the mediaeval Sicut cervus, replaced by the 'standard' Absolve Domine by 158-something. Although the 1992 Graduale Romanum gives a 3rd alternate, Qui seminant in lacrimis (and I can't rule out other pre-tridentine versions) the first two probably cover the repertoire in the PD. Richard Mix (talk) 23:20, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
Now it's my turn: Always a privilege to sit at the feet of the master and learn :-)
Instead of having two fixed Tract texts (T1 and T2, as suggested), it might be easier to have a default one (Sicut cervus ?) and a way to inform an alternative text (|AltT=Qui seminant in lacrimis, for instance). What do you think of this? —Carlos (talk) 02:14, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
<Mutual admiration society grin> Yes, that sounds more flexible, but the Tridentine Absolve should be the default. Richard Mix (talk) 06:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi Richard, I changed the default Tract to Absolve, you may want to check if all Requiem pages do have an Absolve part, or if it should be Sicut cervus instead. I've added a Gradual too, as you suggested. Note too that the syntax for hiding parts has changed, please check the documentation for examples. A question: which Requiem parts have fixed text, and which have alternate texts? I supposed that Introit, Tract, Sequence, Offertorium, and Communio are in this last category, but am not sure. Regards, —Carlos (talk) 05:07, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Great, and the documentation is very clear. I think that Gradual (Si ambulem, just tried adding to Missa pro defunctis (Jean Richafort)) and Tract (Ockeghem of course, but one is ill served by the composer name piping at Psalm 42) might be the only ones, at least for the old rites (too bad our medieval/renaissance/baroque boundaries don't line up with the liturgical reforms!). For my taste, "Communion: Lux aeterna is a bit cluttered and would look better as just Lux aeterna in the appropriate slot, etc. Richard Mix (talk) 00:43, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Oops, so I guessed it wrong. I'll change Gradual to accept whichever text is passed, and change Introit, Sequence, Offertorium and Communio back to fixed texts. By the way, the titles are currently a mixture of English and Latin names, what do you think of uniformizing them? Either English or Latin names would be OK for me. —Carlos (talk) 03:03, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Gr: Requiem could still be the default, with Gr: Si ambulem the alt version. I should think harder about titles, but what if the regular display used genres only for the less expected items:
Requiem * Kyrie * [Gr: Requiem] * [Tr: Absolve Domine] * Dies irae * Domine Jesu Christe * Sanctus (Benedictus) * [Elev: Pie Jesu] * Lux aeterna
If still desired, Intr: Seq: Off: & Comm: should be linguistically ambiguous enough ;-) Richard Mix (talk) 03:39, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, I can only add defaults to texts that are displayed by default :) In the case of the Gradual, the appropriate text will need to be supplied each time.
The links above confused me! By "Requiem" you meant Requiem aeternam, right? As for the introitus, should it be displayed as Introitus (as now), or as Int: Requiem aeternam, or yet as Requiem (as above)?
Eliminating the more obvious titles is OK by me! The Elevation should come after Agnus Dei and before Communion, right? Should it be hidden by default? —Carlos (talk) 14:40, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Yes, sorry about the sloppiness; Elevation between Sanctus & Agnus, maybe thus:
Intr: Requiem * Kyrie * [Gr: Requiem] * [Tr: Absolve Domine] * Dies irae * Off: Domine Jesu Christe * Sanctus (Benedictus) * [Elev: Pie Jesu] * Agnus Dei * Comm: Lux aeterna
Richard Mix (talk) 23:34, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Done! —Carlos (talk) 15:45, 27 November 2020 (UTC)


I'm trying to replace Gloria with the troped Gloria … Spiritus et alme (at Missa de Beata Virgine a 3 (Heinrich Isaac)) and am noticing that |G= is used to substitute the Gradual of a Requiem as well as to supress Gloria in excelsis. Maybe Gr= instead? Richard Mix (talk) 06:12, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Richard, there seems to some some confusion here. G= is always used with the Gloria only, while Gr= is already associated with the Gradual, following your suggestion in our previous discussion above. We probably didn't talk about the possibility of replacing the standard Gloria text with another one, but I suppose this can be done fairly easily. I'll have a look at the code. —Carlos (talk) 02:20, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
Done! :) —Carlos (talk) 02:33, 30 August 2022 (UTC)