Talk:Marco Frisina

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Delete discussion

This page was nominated for deletion on 28 September 2007. Discussion was concluded on 5 March 2008: the consensus was keep.

  • Keep and cleanup I have just changed the template on the page from delnow to delreq because I believe that there should be some discussion before this page is deleted (if indeed, it should be). Many modern composers are popping up on CPDL which I previously saw as a rather pointless excercise. I now understand that this is an extension of what CPDL was - it will be a resource not just for downloading free public domain sheet music but also as a reference point for all choral directors and other interested parties. For this reason, I say, keep and mark as an "unhosted" composer. --Bobnotts talk 21:04, 3 October 2007 (PDT)
  • Keep and cleanup I agree with Rob, and if kept, it should be moved to "Marco Frisna" (without the "Don"). Frisina's La Messa (Marco Frisina) was first posted to CPDL in something like 2001, although the links no longer work. -- Chucktalk Giffen 01:22, 4 October 2007 (PDT)
  • Delete I do not agree because this is CPDL, it's not composer directory service. Even though I'm a very occasional contributor, I would like to highlight that CPDL is somewhat similar to Wikipedia, that is NOT an advertisement service. I think that composers who are alive should decide themselves whether to be listed or not on CPDL, and, if yes, they should contribute to CPDL by "donating" at least one of their works, i.e., provide a free permission so that everybody can distribute, duplicate, perform, and record the CPDL edition provided. The concept of "unhosted" composer may apply to composers who are not living so they cannot contribute to CPDL now, but I think that living composers should. Obviously this concept applies to any living composer. I raised this issue in the case of Marco Frisina as I personally know his scarce respect for music, his greed for celebrity/money, and his self-celebration attitude (is this correct in English?), so really I'm not sure he will ever be wishing to contribute to CPDL. The broken link is probably a sign that he did not want to share even one single work via web without cashing the relevant copyright. --Choralia 04:07, 10 October 2007 (PDT)
May I point out that this page was created by the administrator Raf Ornes when the ChoralWiki version of CPDL was first launched in August 2005, along with the page for Frisina's La Messa, a work that was first posted to the old CPDL on 2001-04-02, edited (and presumably submitted) by the Italian violoncellist Nicola Fiorino (see also Nicola Fiorino's website). Hence, I think we may safely assume that Marco Frisina was at one time in the past represented by one of his works (La Messa) being available through CPDL, even though now his fame rests elsewhere in film, in Italy, and the Vatican. (Sadly, this is not the only instance of works being lost that were previously available at CPDL through external links.) Perhaps the above personal remarks about the composer, the broken link and "relevant copyright" - especially when read against the reasons cited for proposing deletion (eg. "Is he really a composer? I'm not sure.") - are a bit disingenuous and, in the context of the current issue, inappropriate. -- Chucktalk Giffen 01:57, 15 October 2007 (PDT)
My phrase "Is he really a composer? I'm not sure." was just humour because he is quite popular here in Italy, but also his greed for celebrity is well known. However, besides humour, the fact is that this page brings to nowhere: there are two links inside it (one to the score, and one to the composer page on Wikipedia), and they are both broken, so they provide really nothing to the CPDL users. I think that any web page providing no information should be deleted from any web site. The same would probably apply to other composers listed on CPDL. I'll contact Nicola Fiorino to see whether the score can be added again: this would the best result for the benefit of CPDL users! --Choralia 05:39, 15 October 2007 (PDT)
  • Further discussion You raise a very important point, Max. Whilst I don't think that creating a page on CPDL for oneself would be anywhere near good advertisement, I agree that creating "vanity" pages aren't at all what CPDL is about. Having said that, I disagree with your assertion that living composers should decide whether they should have a page or not. Provided that they are not defametary, I don't see a problem with having composer pages for living composers. I doubt that anyone has sought John Rutter or Philip Moore's permission to create pages for them, nor have they considered it necessary to do so, from a moral or legal standpoint. Anyway, back to the matter in hand, I propose the following
    • unpublished living composers must release at least 1 work to the public domain by the CPDL license or a Creative Commons license
    • published living composers can have a page without releasing works in this way but it is best if they don't create the page themselves (they have a degree of "notability" which I believe is a requirement on Wikipedia)
Furthermore, no person ever "owns" a page on ChoralWiki. User pages are created to facilitate better communication between users and therefore to improve the project. Composer pages, even those which are for living composers, must conform to the style guidlines and may be edited by any user, not just the composer if he/she is involved in CPDL.
Therefore, I would ask the following questions:
1. Is Marco Frisina a published composer? If not...
2. Can we get in touch with him to correct the link to the score that was submitted some time ago but which is now unavailable?
--Bobnotts talk 07:23, 12 October 2007 (PDT)
  • Systematic approach I think we should address this issue using a systematic approach:
    • 1) determine the requirements allowing composers to have a "composer page" at CPDL;
    • 2) check whether Marco Frisina meets the requirements;
    • 3) delete the page or not according to the findings of step 2);
    • 4) possibly repeat steps 2) and 3) for any other composers.

I think that step 1) deserves a discussion at the CPDL forum, so I will open a new topic.

By the way, Marco Frisina is a published composer (see Marco Frisina's web site). I noted this page on CPDL because I was very surprised to find a score by Frisina in the public domain. Releasing a score into the public domain can be regarded as a gift in favour of music, while he is not the kind of person who donates his music, definitely. --Choralia 04:00, 14 October 2007 (PDT)

  • Editor unknown I contacted the violoncellist Marco Fiorino, who was supposed to have published the only score by Marco Frisina available in the past on CPDL, and he said he never published any score here. My personal opinion about this situation is that, for some reasons, somebody may have published a copyrighted score under a false name. If we are unable to link this page to a valid score, I think this page is useless and it should be deleted. --Choralia 15:51, 16 October 2007 (PDT)
    • The violoncellist in question is NICOLA Fiorino, not MARCO Fiorino. -- Chucktalk Giffen 23:11, 1 January 2008 (PST)

The site in question has been archived in the internet archive and is available here. Unfortunately, the PDF and MIDI files haven't been archived so all it does is to confirm that the files were once available and put online by Nicola Fiorino. --Bobnotts talk 01:16, 2 January 2008 (PST)
I wrote Marco Fiorino by mistake: the name of the violoncellist that I contacted is Nicola Fiorino. He knows nothing about this score. Perhaps another Nicola Fiorino exists (it may be a rather common name in Southern Italy), but I was unable to find him using google plus some keywords related to choir music. So, it seems we are unable to link this page to anything useful. --Choralia 01:52, 2 January 2008 (PST)
About one month ago I sent an e-mail to the address provided on the author's website (see Marco Frisina's web site). I asked for clarifications and possibly permission to publish this work on CPDL. No answer. Is there anything more that could be done? I re-inforce the proposal to delete this page, as it provides no information and it takes nowhere. --Choralia 07:42, 1 February 2008 (PST)

Update: I've just added a list of some of Marco Frisina's works that I copied from his official site (which I added a link to). As this composer is published, the page now offers more than just a broken link and the consensus appears to be to retain the page, I have removed the delete request. Max: if you still believe that the page should be deleted, feel free to restore the delete request but you would have to have a reason other than the ones that you submitted above. --Bobnotts talk 07:09, 5 March 2008 (PST)

Great work, Rob, I like it. Perhaps you may delete the link to Wikipedia as there is no article there. Then, in my opinion, it does not make much sense that a page on CPDL provides no public domain sheet music, however this is probably a discussion that is applicable to other authors, too. --Choralia 05:22, 6 March 2008 (PST)
  • I know this discussion is already closed, or else I'd join Max in the delete request, or at least delete the page for La Messa, which is probably still under copyright. —Carlos Email.gif 13:25, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

La Messa

I took the liberty to delete the page for La Messa, as the link has been broken for years and the work is most probably copyrighted. (see here). —Carlos Email.gif 00:13, 25 July 2012 (CDT)