Template talk:Instruments: Difference between revisions
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While I like the template, I don't feel that it is set up to categorize correctly, say, a work whose accompaniment is, eg. flute and piano, or viola (alone - not part of a string ensemble). Indeed, solo instruments seem to get ignored in the way the template is written now; for exmaple, in the current version of the template, flute links (possibly wrongly) to {{CiteCat|Wind ensemble accompaniment}} (there is indeed a {{CiteCat|Flute accompaniment}} category). I think that we have to try (insofar as is possible) to follow the subcategory structure of {{CiteCat|Accompaniment}} if we are to implement a comprehensive template. | While I like the template, I don't feel that it is set up to categorize correctly, say, a work whose accompaniment is, eg. flute and piano, or viola (alone - not part of a string ensemble). Indeed, solo instruments seem to get ignored in the way the template is written now; for exmaple, in the current version of the template, flute links (possibly wrongly) to {{CiteCat|Wind ensemble accompaniment}} (there is indeed a {{CiteCat|Flute accompaniment}} category). I think that we have to try (insofar as is possible) to follow the subcategory structure of {{CiteCat|Accompaniment}} if we are to implement a comprehensive template. | ||
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:The template in its current state will certainly need some adjustments to encompass all instrumentations currently found at CPDL. But you're mistaken about the flute solo, it's already being categorized correctly as can be seen in the template documentation's example. Other categories for solo instruments can be created if necessary (as the viola example you gave), but currently they only exist for flute/guitar/harp/lute, and these are already included in the template. Some were not included yet because of their rarity, as "Brass" and "Jazz band". One complication that I foresee is how to decide when a combination of instruments is a [[:Category:Mixed ensemble accompaniment|Mixed ensemble]] and when not. —[[User:Carlos|Carlos]] [{{ | :The template in its current state will certainly need some adjustments to encompass all instrumentations currently found at CPDL. But you're mistaken about the flute solo, it's already being categorized correctly as can be seen in the template documentation's example. Other categories for solo instruments can be created if necessary (as the viola example you gave), but currently they only exist for flute/guitar/harp/lute, and these are already included in the template. Some were not included yet because of their rarity, as "Brass" and "Jazz band". One complication that I foresee is how to decide when a combination of instruments is a [[:Category:Mixed ensemble accompaniment|Mixed ensemble]] and when not. —[[User:Carlos|Carlos]] [{{fullurl:User talk:Carlos}} {{mail}}] 08:14, 19 May 2009 (UTC) | ||
{{reply|level=1|by=[[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]] [[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 14:43, 19 May 2009 (UTC) | {{reply|level=1|by=[[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]] [[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 14:43, 19 May 2009 (UTC) | ||
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:- As to adding other instruments to "complement" what the user has written, I don't think it's a good idea. In the case of the Viol consort, for instance, if the user wants to include lute/theorbo/etc., he should have to indicate it clearly. The template shouldn't add instruments that weren't explicitly indicated, in my view. | :- As to adding other instruments to "complement" what the user has written, I don't think it's a good idea. In the case of the Viol consort, for instance, if the user wants to include lute/theorbo/etc., he should have to indicate it clearly. The template shouldn't add instruments that weren't explicitly indicated, in my view. | ||
:- Oh, yes I forgot the Harpsichord, will add it soon. :) | :- Oh, yes I forgot the Harpsichord, will add it soon. :) | ||
:- If you and Rob aren't used to Regular Expressions, I suggest you google for this term together with "php" (this is the particular "brand" of RegExp used by the wiki). You'll find plenty of documentation related to this topic and many syntax examples (this is helping me a lot with the RegExp). —[[User:Carlos|Carlos]] [{{ | :- If you and Rob aren't used to Regular Expressions, I suggest you google for this term together with "php" (this is the particular "brand" of RegExp used by the wiki). You'll find plenty of documentation related to this topic and many syntax examples (this is helping me a lot with the RegExp). —[[User:Carlos|Carlos]] [{{fullurl:User talk:Carlos}} {{mail}}] 07:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC) | ||
{{reply|level=2 | |||
|by=[[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]] [[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 14:04, 20 May 2009 (UTC) | |||
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Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Carlos. I'm in general agreement with what you wrote and will try to digest it more later today or tomorrow (it may turn out to be a busy day for me here). | |||
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Revision as of 14:04, 20 May 2009
New template discussion
I like it already :-) Should we have this run alongside the regular accompaniment templates? --Bobnotts talk 22:19, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
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- The template in its current state will certainly need some adjustments to encompass all instrumentations currently found at CPDL. But you're mistaken about the flute solo, it's already being categorized correctly as can be seen in the template documentation's example. Other categories for solo instruments can be created if necessary (as the viola example you gave), but currently they only exist for flute/guitar/harp/lute, and these are already included in the template. Some were not included yet because of their rarity, as "Brass" and "Jazz band". One complication that I foresee is how to decide when a combination of instruments is a Mixed ensemble and when not. —Carlos 08:14, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
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- - Chuck, I realize there's a lot of work to do ahead, and the list above is a pretty good start! The definition of Mixed ensemble was especially useful, since I wasn't totally sure of what to include in it. Good also that you cited the Chamber orchestra, I was missing it at CPDL, and I agree that there's a good level of overlapping between the two of them, but I have the impression that the latter expression is more commonly used than Mixed ensemble.
- - About the solo instruments, it would perhaps be useful to have a clear idea of how much they are present at CPDL. It can be done via the ReplaceText extension (say we try to replace "oboe" with "oboe", it will inform how many pages already have this text), and then create new categories for the most relevant ones. This approach is also valid for the other rarer instruments you cited.
- - I would leave off from the template those very generic cases like "optional C instrument"; if the editors won't themselves define what is the best accompaniment, it shouldn't be us to do it; besides, adding all those categories for each fitting instrument would create visual pollution. I particularly have never seen such an instrumentation at CPDL.
- - As to adding other instruments to "complement" what the user has written, I don't think it's a good idea. In the case of the Viol consort, for instance, if the user wants to include lute/theorbo/etc., he should have to indicate it clearly. The template shouldn't add instruments that weren't explicitly indicated, in my view.
- - Oh, yes I forgot the Harpsichord, will add it soon. :)
- - If you and Rob aren't used to Regular Expressions, I suggest you google for this term together with "php" (this is the particular "brand" of RegExp used by the wiki). You'll find plenty of documentation related to this topic and many syntax examples (this is helping me a lot with the RegExp). —Carlos 07:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
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