Talk:The Creation (Joseph Haydn)

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Revision as of 07:27, 27 June 2011 by Claude T (talk | contribs) (Merged talk page from Talk:Achieved is the Glorious Work (from 'The Creation') (Franz Joseph Haydn))
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English title

Much as I agree that English should serve as a lingua franca on cpdl, I'm not quite sure this instance is the most adequate translation. Die Schöpfung takes an article in German, but even as a non-native English speaker (just an obnoxious teacher of it), I'm not quite sure the article is warranted in English. A noun of general reference doesn't usually take an article, in my understanding: "[---] Traffic is very busy at that time of day" or "[---] People think it's easy to live a life like that". No English speaker would contemplate using an article in those cases, I think. Putseys (1994) says "omission of the overt the-form of the classifiying definite article is possible with a singular count noun when the NP [...] denotes a unique role", which I think applies to Creation. joachim 18:00, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

In almost all English language references that I've checked, this oratorio is indeed referred to as The Creation, whether the definite article is warranted or not. -- Chucktalk Giffen 18:19, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Almost? My curiosity is aroused! I'm not entirely happy and agonized over naming the page The Creation instead of Die Schöpfung. The issue isnt really one of a lingua franca but of which title is the 'original': the commissioned libretto sung at the premiere, or Haydn's 'working version'. It's a very hard call; even US performers sometimes opt for the German text as able to more closely convey the composer's intentions to an English-speaking audience. Richard Mix 05:16, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
ps to Joachim: There is somewhere in the vast literature an entertaining discussion of Messiah's title, which modern anglophones can never resist turning into "The Messiah". If I come across it again I'll try to remember to send you a reference.

To do list

  1. A list of all movements, deciding on a particular numbering system (some editions dont number the chaos-overture, Novello (iirc) numbers the two Achieved's 27a and 27b...
  2. Merge The Heavens/Die Himmel
  3. Subpage for 'no. 26'
  4. Text page
  5. link other IMSLP editions and facsimiles

Richard Mix 05:46, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Merged from

The blame for a confusing situation can be laid on Haydn, who wrote similar but different music for the reprise of "Achievèd is" after the Trio "On Thee". One solution is to split this page into

Easier in the short run, however, would be to just delete this subpage and leave all files linked from The Creation (Franz Joseph Haydn). Richard Mix 22:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Agree that this page should be merged into The Creation (Franz Joseph Haydn). --Vaarky 05:02, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
  • I also agree with the merge, and this page could become a redirect to 'The Creation'. —Carlos Email.gif 15:03, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Done Claude 02:27, 27 June 2011 (CDT)