Difference between revisions of "Talk:The Creation (Joseph Haydn)"

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: In almost all English language references that I've checked, this oratorio is indeed referred to as ''The Creation'', whether the definite article is warranted or not. -- [[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]]&nbsp;[[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 18:19, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 
: In almost all English language references that I've checked, this oratorio is indeed referred to as ''The Creation'', whether the definite article is warranted or not. -- [[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]]&nbsp;[[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 18:19, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 
::Almost?  My curiosity is aroused!  I'm not entirely happy and agonized over naming the page ''The Creation'' instead of ''Die Schöpfung''.  The issue isnt really one of a lingua franca but of which title is the 'original': the commissioned libretto sung at the premiere, or Haydn's 'working version'.  It's a very hard call; even US performers sometimes opt for the German text as able to more closely convey the composer's intentions to an English-speaking audience. [[User:Richard Mix|Richard Mix]] 05:16, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 
::Almost?  My curiosity is aroused!  I'm not entirely happy and agonized over naming the page ''The Creation'' instead of ''Die Schöpfung''.  The issue isnt really one of a lingua franca but of which title is the 'original': the commissioned libretto sung at the premiere, or Haydn's 'working version'.  It's a very hard call; even US performers sometimes opt for the German text as able to more closely convey the composer's intentions to an English-speaking audience. [[User:Richard Mix|Richard Mix]] 05:16, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 +
::ps to Joachim: There is somewhere in the vast literature an entertaining discussion of ''Messiah'''s title, which modern anglophones can never resist turning into ''"The Messiah"''.  If I come across it again I'll try to remember to send you a reference.
  
 
== To do list ==
 
== To do list ==

Revision as of 05:58, 3 October 2009

English title

Much as I agree that English should serve as a lingua franca on cpdl, I'm not quite sure this instance is the most adequate translation. Die Schöpfung takes an article in German, but even as a non-native English speaker (just an obnoxious teacher of it), I'm not quite sure the article is warranted in English. A noun of general reference doesn't usually take an article, in my understanding: "[---] Traffic is very busy at that time of day" or "[---] People think it's easy to live a life like that". No English speaker would contemplate using an article in those cases, I think. Putseys (1994) says "omission of the overt the-form of the classifiying definite article is possible with a singular count noun when the NP [...] denotes a unique role", which I think applies to Creation. joachim 18:00, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

In almost all English language references that I've checked, this oratorio is indeed referred to as The Creation, whether the definite article is warranted or not. -- Chucktalk Giffen 18:19, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Almost? My curiosity is aroused! I'm not entirely happy and agonized over naming the page The Creation instead of Die Schöpfung. The issue isnt really one of a lingua franca but of which title is the 'original': the commissioned libretto sung at the premiere, or Haydn's 'working version'. It's a very hard call; even US performers sometimes opt for the German text as able to more closely convey the composer's intentions to an English-speaking audience. Richard Mix 05:16, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
ps to Joachim: There is somewhere in the vast literature an entertaining discussion of Messiah's title, which modern anglophones can never resist turning into "The Messiah". If I come across it again I'll try to remember to send you a reference.

To do list

  1. A list of all movements, deciding on a particular numbering system (some editions dont number the chaos-overture, Novello (iirc) numbers the two Achieved's 27a and 27b...
  2. Merge The Heavens/Die Himmel
  3. Subpage for 'no. 26'
  4. Text page
  5. link other IMSLP editions and facsimiles

Richard Mix 05:46, 3 October 2009 (UTC)