Difference between revisions of "Talk:Lobt Gott, ihr Christen, alle gleich (Nikolaus Herman)"

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Wait! ... I just found Johann Nikolaus Herman (c1480 - 1561) given as the composer of this chorale in a [http://www.renaissancevoices.org/repertoire.html program listing] for "Christmas with the Renaissance Voices, 2005".  It would seem that this is the full composer name? &ndash; [[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]]&nbsp;[[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 03:08, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 
Wait! ... I just found Johann Nikolaus Herman (c1480 - 1561) given as the composer of this chorale in a [http://www.renaissancevoices.org/repertoire.html program listing] for "Christmas with the Renaissance Voices, 2005".  It would seem that this is the full composer name? &ndash; [[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]]&nbsp;[[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 03:08, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
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{{Reply|by=[[User:Vaarky|Vaarky]] 06:01, 31 August 2010 (UTC)|text=
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I asked Helene Whitson of the Bay Area Choral Archive. She provided some information from the Grove article on Nicolaus Herman (1500-1561), that makes it sound like this is the famous work by Nicolaus (and the listing does not indicate that Johann is part of his name):
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"Luther's first biographer and ... close friend ... He wrote both text and music, but most melodies are used
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for several texts.  ... Though never attaining
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the poetic force of [Luther] the latter's work, many have retained their place in the
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standard German Lutheran hymn repertory:  above all 'Lobt Gott, ihr Christen
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alle gelich', ....  In a number of melodies he employed
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elements of plainchant, sometimes alongside folk elements.  Thus his
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well-known tune for 'Lobt Gott, ihr Christen alle gleich' is probably
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connected with the Christmas antiphon Hodie Christus natus est nobis..."
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So I'm skeptical about Johann Nicolaus Hermann being the name. I think we should ask the contributor where they got the Johann from and what they know about the composer.}}
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::From [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hermann_(Kirchenlieddichter) de.wikipedia] and from [https://de.wikisource.org/wiki/ADB:Hermann,_Johann_(gest._nach_1563) Allgemeine Deutsche Biographie], I conclude that the author (poet) of "Lobt Gott, ihr Christen, alle gleich" was a man best identified as Johann Hermann Senior, called "Johann Hermann (Kirchenlieddichter)" in the German Wikipedia; if he is to be associated with the name "Italus", as many think, he was born in Nördlingen and was a Lutheran theologian in Wittenberg 1548-1568. However, he is not to be confused with Johann Heermann (1585-1647) or Nikolaus Hermann (ca. 1500-1561) or Johann Hermann, Medical Doctor in Wittenberg (1527-1605).
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::I think Nikolaus Herman to be the composer, as Bach-Cantatas.com says. — [[User:BarryJ|Barry Johnston]] [[User talk:BarryJ|(talk)]] 21:06, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 03:37, 12 February 2022

Composer/author names?

This site lists a Nikolaus Herman (c1480 - 1561) as the author (1554) of the text for this chorale and either Anonymous or the same Nikolaus Herman as the composer of the chorale (or its melody?)> Or is it possible that Johann Herman is the same as Johannes Hermann (or Herman)? So far, I've been unable to track down another source for this Johann Herman. – Chucktalk Giffen 02:58, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Wait! ... I just found Johann Nikolaus Herman (c1480 - 1561) given as the composer of this chorale in a program listing for "Christmas with the Renaissance Voices, 2005". It would seem that this is the full composer name? – Chucktalk Giffen 03:08, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Reply by: Vaarky 06:01, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

 Help 

I asked Helene Whitson of the Bay Area Choral Archive. She provided some information from the Grove article on Nicolaus Herman (1500-1561), that makes it sound like this is the famous work by Nicolaus (and the listing does not indicate that Johann is part of his name):

"Luther's first biographer and ... close friend ... He wrote both text and music, but most melodies are used for several texts. ... Though never attaining the poetic force of [Luther] the latter's work, many have retained their place in the standard German Lutheran hymn repertory: above all 'Lobt Gott, ihr Christen alle gelich', .... In a number of melodies he employed elements of plainchant, sometimes alongside folk elements. Thus his well-known tune for 'Lobt Gott, ihr Christen alle gleich' is probably connected with the Christmas antiphon Hodie Christus natus est nobis..."

So I'm skeptical about Johann Nicolaus Hermann being the name. I think we should ask the contributor where they got the Johann from and what they know about the composer.

From de.wikipedia and from Allgemeine Deutsche Biographie, I conclude that the author (poet) of "Lobt Gott, ihr Christen, alle gleich" was a man best identified as Johann Hermann Senior, called "Johann Hermann (Kirchenlieddichter)" in the German Wikipedia; if he is to be associated with the name "Italus", as many think, he was born in Nördlingen and was a Lutheran theologian in Wittenberg 1548-1568. However, he is not to be confused with Johann Heermann (1585-1647) or Nikolaus Hermann (ca. 1500-1561) or Johann Hermann, Medical Doctor in Wittenberg (1527-1605).
I think Nikolaus Herman to be the composer, as Bach-Cantatas.com says. — Barry Johnston (talk) 21:06, 11 February 2022 (UTC)