Talk:Dies Irae (Gregorian chant)

I have some questions concerning this piece.

Measures 7 and 10 are identical except for the F sharp in bar 7. Should they not be the same? The F natural in bar 10 breaks the row of perfect fourths.

it should be F# - no matter how modal plainchant is, the diabolus in musica is definitely out. joachim

In bar 12, which otherwise corresponds to bar 9 and 30, there are some perfect fifths. Is that correct?

I don't see any fifths in bar 12, I'm afraid. joachim

Finally, are measures 19-27 and 31-40 meant to be sung by the women only?

Sven

Male/Female voicing category?

I have the impression that CPDL is missing a category for 2-part works divided between female and male voices. How to classify such works? —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 20:27, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Alternatim? --Vaarky 07:20, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Couldn't you just put ST as voicing? Or SB, for that matter? Since the source file is available, it's relatively easy to transpose the piece if one finds the tessitura uncomfortable for one's choir. Besides, pitch doesn't really matter in plainchant anyway. joachim 09:42, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Joachim, I'm not thinking of plainchant exclusivelly. In my choral life I've seen a number of works written for unison male/female voices, so I think the ST or SB approach woundn't be proper in these cases.

Vaarky, I didn't know the term Alternatim, but it seems to be associated with liturgical music only, and doesn't seem to bring the sense of male/female contraposition.

I suggest the creation of new "gender/age" categories for "Male unison", "Female unison", "Male/Female unison" and "Children unison" to classify this and other similar works. Do these names sound good? —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 13:57, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Alternatim came out of the liturgical tradition but the term is quite commonly used for the technique even when applied to modern and non-liturgical music. This page defines it independently of the religious setting, for example. But if enough people are not familiar with the term, it's probably suboptimal as an index term for CPDL. -- Vaarky 19:25, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I have no objection to either solution, but I'm afraid I still think an extra category is superfluous. If a piece is truly unison, then gender doesn't really come into it, since a simple transposition could make it suitable for all sexes and ages. If, as is the case here, certain verses are meant for men's and other for women's voices (the piece therefore being not quite unison) , I don't see why an ST, AB or similar indication would not suffice. As far as altnernatim is concerned: I,too, had the first impression of it being limited to a dialogue between plainchant and polyphony (or organ), but if a reliable source widens the concept, why not. Cordially, joachim 11:06, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Correct text in verse 16?

Hello! I'd like to comment in the text in verse 16. According to [1] the text is

Confutatis maledictis, flammis acribus addictis, voca me cum benedictis

Thank you for Dies irea!

Ingebjør 15:44, 12 May 2009 (UTC)