User talk:Johnhenryfowler/Archive 2

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Sabine Cassola's new editions

Hi John. Thanks for posting Sabine Cassola's latest editions - I wonder if you could clarify a point. At the moment, the score pages read "Finale 6". I've never heard of a Finale 6 and from what I've seen, the different versions of the software are always followed by a year, not a single number, eg "Finale 2006". Is that what you meant? --Bobnotts talk 23:53, 28 May 2008 (PDT)

Finale 6 is same as Finale 2006 - just shorthand - and I prefer Fin6 ultimately. Sibelius 4 I abbreviate as Sib4, unless I'm confusing it with Finale and using Sibelius 2004. I'd suggest we abbreviate in future. NOTEWORTHY COMPOSER should be NWC, etc But most impostant is to get Add-Work script working again so we don't have to remember all this detail to post. Johnhenryfowler 00:06, 29 May 2008 (PDT)
Thanks for clarifying that, John. I've moved your reply here because, as I've exaplained at the top of my talk page, I like to group messages together to keep the discussion together and make things clearer - please reply here. I have to say that I disagree with your shorthand suggestion - as was proved by my confusion, most users won't assume that "Finale 6" means "Finale 2006", or, even worse "Fin6" if they haven't heard of Finale. Likewise, NoteWorthy Composer is not a well known piece of software and if a user hasn't heard of it, they won't make the connection between "NWC" and NoteWorthy Composer. I think if this were introduced as a standard, it would be a further stumbling block for new users trying to understand how the site works so I suggest that all names be written out in full to avoid confusion. --Bobnotts talk 00:28, 29 May 2008 (PDT)
I agree with Rob. Finale 200X IS Finale 200X (not FinX). Likewise, NoteWorthy Composer (note the proper use of upper and lower case) IS NoteWorthy Composer (not NWC, not NOTEWORTHY COMPOSER). LilyPond IS LilyPond (not LY, not Lilypond, not LILYPOND). And Sibelius X IS Sibelius X (not SIBX, not SibX, not SIBELIUSX not SibeliusX). In other words, we should respect and use the orthography of names as used by the software suppliers. Many users (especially those using software from a foreign source) will not necessarily know the abbreviations, and I submit that, in the matter of software orthography (and in other matters), we should strive for a uniform, across-the-board, appearance. If not then I've spent many hours in vain changing NOTEWORTHY COMPOSER to NoteWorthy Composer, SIBELIUS to Sibelius, ENCORE to Encore, Lilypond to LilyPond, FINALE to Finale, etc. -- Chucktalk Giffen 01:42, 29 May 2008 (PDT)
I'll try to be more consistant. But, not to miss my point I repeat it here:"But most impostant is to get Add-Work script working again so we don't have to remember all this detail to post"
By the way do you want the hyphen in "Finale-2006" ? Johnhenryfowler 07:28, 29 May 2008 (PDT)
I definitely agree about getting the new add works form up and running which is why I've spent so much time (and will spend some more time) testing and suggesting alterations to Arie :-) As for the name, it seems to be the standard that "Finale 2006", ie. without a hyphen, is correct. Incidentally, I sent you an email via the wiki "email this user" feature as I couldn't find an email address for you. When you get a moment, could you confirm that you've received it? Thanks! --Bobnotts talk 08:35, 29 May 2008 (PDT)
I didn't get your email. My email is my CPDL username followed by (at)GMAIL.COM By the way Philip Legge's Monteverdi page uses the hyphen in all Finale links. Johnhenryfowler 08:40, 29 May 2008 (PDT)
I have Finale 2004, Finale 2005, Finale 2006, Finale 2007, and Finale 2008 ... all unhyphenated by the manufacturer. I have been removing the hyphens when I find them during editing (the old add music form put the hyphens in). -- Chucktalk Giffen 10:27, 29 May 2008 (PDT)
Chuck's right about Finale - the fact that we've got some mistakes all over the wiki is old news. I've just fixed the Monteverdi page. I just re-sent that email to your gmail address, John, hope it comes through ok. --Bobnotts talk 20:10, 29 May 2008 (PDT)
I did NOT get your email. Johnhenryfowler 00:06, 30 May 2008 (PDT)
Please confirm that your email address is johnhenryfowler AT --Bobnotts talk 00:39, 30 May 2008 (PDT)
Yes it is, and I just received your email in the last 1/2 hour. Johnhenryfowler 01:06, 30 May 2008 (PDT)

Prevent us, O Lord (Charles Hubert Hastings Parry)

Hi John. Why have you added a duplicate score entry to this page for what appears to be the same edition? --Bobnotts talk 18:04, 31 May 2008 (PDT)

It is the same edition, but now it is stored on the Wiki server, and has the missing Sibelius 4 source file.
I left the original for the CPDL number, in case you wanted to keep the original CPDL number.
Did you get my email with the Crookall's Stanford files ? Johnhenryfowler 23:14, 31 May 2008 (PDT)
That's great that you've recovered the Sibelius 4 file, but as it is the same edition, there should only ever be one entry (and one catalogue number). I've merged the entries, commenting out the Williams server links. Should they ever be required, the links can be restored. I did get your email, thanks for that - I'll make sure I deal with those files. By the way, I removed the external links that you added to Armida's Garden (Charles Hubert Hastings Parry) because these are already on the new Mary E. Coleridge page where they belong. If someone wants to find out more about her, they can simply go to the CPDL page on her by clicking the link next to "Lyricist". Also, I removed the note under "description" about Coleridge as that information also exists on her page and doesn't relate directly to the art song in question. Sorry for messing up the indentation of the lyrics. --Bobnotts talk 07:47, 1 June 2008 (PDT)

David Newman's contributions

Hi John. According to the Note posted by David Newman on his User page, CPDL is welcome to link to songs from his site but asks CPDL not to rehost the PDF files. According to my reading of this, it is therefore not sufficient to add a cross-posting note to the Edition notes sections. Instead, it will be necessary to delete copies of the PDF files on the CPDL server and put in net ( Network.png) links to the corresponding file pages at Art Song Central. I hope this can be done as quickly as possible so that we comply fully with the contributor's wishes. -- Chucktalk Giffen 22:35, 9 June 2008 (PDT)

I noticed David Newman's comments but with his site down couldn't do anything about it yeaterday. All the links have been changed, but you must already know this as you have now deleted all the PDF files. Johnhenryfowler 02:56, 10 June 2008 (PDT)
Yes, I deleted the files as soon as I saw you had changed the links. I figured it was best to get it done quickly. Thanks John!! -- Chucktalk Giffen 03:16, 10 June 2008 (PDT)

Quem vidistis, pastores?

Hi John! Sorry, I didn't notice you were still editing the cited score page and created a similar one for your score. It seems the correct is indeed the above title, without the exclamation "O". I also made a few corrections to Orazio Vecchi's page with regards to his image size. -- CarlosTalk 13:57, 23 June 2008 (PDT)

Hi Carlos! Thanks for your help. I'm adding scores done by Sabine Cassola (Rome, Italy) who has difficulty posting, so I do it for her. She Postal-Mailed a CD ROM with over 200 scores which I have been busy posting. I can only manage 2-3 scores a day. It also puts me at a disadvantage, since I know nothing about the origins of the score.
I made a composer page for "Horatio Vecchi" (the way it is in the score is Horatius Veccius) only to find the existing composer page titled "Oratio Vecchi". The score was titled: "I Quem vidistis Pastores" but the Finale file named "1 Vecchi, O. Quem vidistis.mus", so I mistakenly named it "O Quem Vidistis (Horatio Vecchi)" when it should have been "Quem Vidistis (Oratio Vecchi)"
I am about to start posting 30 or so scores from "Florilegium sacrarum cantionum - Petri Phalesij 1609", which I guess is a collection of music published by Netherlands music publisher "Petri Phalesij" in 1609 (Italian:Petri Phalesij, French:Pierre Phalèse or Latin:Petrus Phalesius)
The Dutch Wikipedia (translated via babelfish) has the following info: Pierre Phalèse, including Petrus, Peeter or Pieter Phalesius or Ned. Pieter van der Phaliezen (born circa 1510 - deceased in 1573), was a music publisher and printer from the Netherlands. Componist is hij waarschijnlijk nooit geweest, al associeert men de anonieme dansen die hij in de jaren 1570 uitgeeft meestal wel met hem als componist. Composer he probably never has been, whether we associate the anonymous dancing in the years that he spends most of 1570 with him as a composer.
The set probably should have a "Collection Page" made for the "Florilegium sacrarum cantionum" similar to the page I made for Palestrina - Canticum Canticorum
My next posting piece is: Franciscus Bianciardus 1570 - 1607 - Composer of Number 2 of the set from "Florilegium sacrarum cantionum" - which is titled "Surgite pastores". What is the proper composer name: Fransisco Bianciadi ? So the works page should be "Surgite pastores (Fransisco Bianciadi)"?
Would you like to assist in the posting of Sabine's files ?
Johnhenryfowler 01:47, 24 June 2008 (PDT)
Hi again John! You seem to have a lot of work ahead, I will surely try to help you in everything I can. I've already created the composer pages for Francesco Bianciardi (that's the most common form of his name nowadays) and Girolamo Vespa. The composer of #3 is Ruggiero Giovannelli. I intend to create pages for the other composers you listed below, as well. -- CarlosTalk 16:42, 24 June 2008 (PDT)
Hi John, I've created two more composer pages: Benedetto Pesenti and Damiano Scarabelli. As I had said you above, you shouldn't have created a page for Ruggiero Ioanelli, since there is already one for him: Ruggiero Giovannelli. I'll move his pages to the correct titles, ok? -- CarlosTalk 03:42, 25 June 2008 (PDT)

Hi Carlos. Thanks for the correctly spelled composer pages! I've moved the pages for "Giovannelli" from my page "Ioanelli". I wouldn't have known they were the same composer. Feel free the follow behind me as I do the 30 postings, and clean up my mistakes. The Italian Renaissance was not a specialty of mine while I was studying electrical engineering - However English Baroque... Johnhenryfowler 04:01, 25 June 2008 (PDT)

Hi John, so you are an electrical engineer too! So do I, LOL. During my course, I was impressed at the amount of engineer colleagues who also liked the Baroque style!
Would you like me to create the next score pages for you and fill them with a template, so you have less work editing them? -- CarlosTalk 04:29, 25 June 2008 (PDT)
Hi John, I have to leave now but will be back at night and them I can help you more. Please take a look at Florilegium Sacrarum Cantionum, I've added links to score pages that already exist, you will just have to add the new score info to them. By the way, are the number of pages and CPDL# really necessary on that page? I understand this info may help you now, but the page would be much more "clean" without them. Besides that, some score pages have more than one edition, so the best is to keep page number and CPDL number info only in the score page, with each edition. -- CarlosTalk 05:19, 25 June 2008 (PDT)

Hi Carlos - The Page Numbers and CPDL Number were just for my reference while adding scores to the list. If you are in the mood to post I've uploaded files for 14, 20, 21,23, and 24. If not I'll attack them tomorrow. Thanks for your help today. Johnhenryfowler 08:03, 25 June 2008 (PDT)


Hi John First of all, congrats on your prolific output over the past few days and weeks. Wonderful to see all that valuable music become available on CPDL. One small question, though: you mention your last contribution as having been published by Petri Phalesij. I'm pretty convinced that should be Petrus Phalesius, since that is the nominative case in Latin. The possessive which you use probably stems from some sort of title or dedication mentioning that the book was published by Phalesius or in Phalesius' establishment, hence the case marking. Cordially, joachim 07:00, 24 June 2008 (PDT)

It's a good point. If I were using his LATIN name your choice is correct, but what name to use. In this translated-from-the-Dutch WikiPedia page on this flemish publisher it says "Pierre Phalèse, including Petrus, Peeter or Pieter Phalesius or Ned. Pieter van der Phaliezen (born circa 1510 - deceased in 1573), was a music publisher and printer from the Netherlands." In Sabines score she says "Florilegium sacrarum cantionum - Petri Phalesij 1609", so I used her name for the guy. Is it Italian ? Flemmish ? I've no idea, but it is what is in her scores....

Want to help post her scores ?

I'm uploading PDF, MIDI, and Finale 2006 source files tomorrow for the following (and I need new composer pages mad for the *'ed entries below):

Florilegium sacrarum cantionum - Latin:Petrus Phalesius - 1609

  • No 1 - Quem pastores, dicite! - Orazio Vecchi - (1550 - 1604) - 2 pps. - CPDL 17314
  • No 2 - Surgite pastores - Francisco Bianciardi - (1570 - 1607) - 3 pps. - CPDL 17315*
  • No 2a - Patefactae sunt iannuae coeli - Girolamo Vespa (c.1540 - c.1596) - 3 pps. - CPDL 17316*
  • No 3 - Hic est discipulus - Ruggiero Ioanellus - (1560 - 1625) - 3 pps. - CPDL 17317*
  • No 8 - Senex puerum portabat - Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina - (1525 - 1594) - 7 pps. - CPDL 17318
  • No 9 - Ave Regina coelorum - Thomas Luigi de Victoria - (1548 - 1611) - 5 pps. - CPDL 17319
  • No 10 - Emendemus in melius - Baldassare Donato - (1530 - 1603) - 4 pps. - CPDL 17320
  • No 11 - Suscipe Verbum Virgo Maria - Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina - (1525 - 1594) - 9 pps. - CPDL 17321
  • No 12 - O vos omnes - Hieronymus Praetorius - (1560 - 1629) - 3 pps. - CPDL 17322
  • No 13 - Jerusalem, surge - Benedict Pesenti - (1545 - 1591) - 3 pps. - CPDL 17323*
  • No 14 - Regina caeli laetare copia - Thomas Luigi de Victoria - (1548 - 1611) - 5 pps. - CPDL 17324
  • No 20 - Ascendens Christus In Altum - Thomas Luigi de Victoria - (1548 - 1611) - 7 pps. - CPDL 17325
  • No 21 - Ascendo ad Patrem meum - Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina (1525 - 1594) - 7 pps. - CPDL 17326
  • No 23 - Spiritus Sanctus replevit - Damiano Scarabelli (Scarabeus) - ( ? - 1598) - 6 pps. - CPDL 17327*
  • No 24 - Dum complerentur dies Pentecostes - Thomas Luigi de Victoria (1548 - 1611) - 8 pps. - CPDL 17328
  • No 31 - Puer qui natus est - Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina - (1525 - 1594) - 4 pps. - CPDL 17329
  • No 35 - O lux et decus Hispaniae - Thomas Luigi de Victoria (1548 - 1611) - 3 pps. - CPDL 17330
  • No 36 - Beatus Laurentius Dixit - Sebastiàn Raval - (1550 - 1604) - 4 pps. - CPDL 17331
  • No 37 - Surge, propera amica mea - Tiburtio Massaino - (1530 - 1609) - 4 pps. - CPDL 17332
  • No 44 - Ecce Dominus Veniet - Thomas Luigi de Victoria - (1548 - 1611) - 6 pps. - CPDL 17333
  • No 45 - Canite tuba - Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina - (1525 - 1594) - 7 pps. - CPDL 17334
  • No 46 - Alma Redemptoris Mater - Thomas Luigi de Victoria - (1548 - 1611) - 5 pps. - CPDL 17335
  • No 51 - Corona Aurea - Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina - (1525 - 1594) - 7 pps. - CPDL 17336
  • No 56 - Dilectus Meus - Pierre Bonhomme (1555 - 1617) - 3 pps. - CPDL 17337
  • No 57 - Tota Pulchra Es - Giulio Belli - (1560 - 1621) - 3 pps - CPDL 17338*
  • No 58 - Jubilate Deo - Damiano Scarabelli (Scarabeus) - ( ? - 1598) - 3 pps. - CPDL 17339*
  • No 59 - Eructavit cor meum - Benedictus Pesentius - (1545-1591) - 7 pps. - CPDL 17340
  • No 61 - Non est bonum - Hieronymus Praetorius - (1560 - 1629) - 3 pps. - CPDL 17341
  • No 62 - Exultate Deo - Pierre Bonhomme - (1555 - 1617) - 3 pps. - CPDL 17342
  • No 63 - Laudate DOminum - Francisco Bianciardi - (1570 - 1607) - 4 pps. - CPDL 17343*
  • = Need a new Composer Page made for these composers.

Hi John, thanks for that clarification. Your answer confirmed my assumption that the name you used is in possessive case because of the particular wording in the title of the work. Whether you use his French, Dutch or Latin name, Phalesij could never be the guy's name. As for the daunting editing job ahead of you: much as I regret it, I've sort of taken the approach of not editing anything on cpdl as long as the contribution and editing processes haven't been finalised (or at least finetuned). Still, keep up the good work. joachim 01:05, 25 June 2008 (PDT)

More composers

Hi John, here are the composer pages you will need:

Regards, CarlosTalk 16:26, 27 June 2008 (PDT)

Hi again John, I've created the composer pages for you:

Regards, CarlosTalk 16:23, 28 June 2008 (PDT)


And congratulations for the award, it's well deserved! :) -- CarlosTalk 04:52, 30 June 2008 (PDT)

Binchois PDF & MIDI uploaded

Hi John. I've uploaded File:Binchois-Virgo Rosa.pdf and File:Binchois-Virgo Rosa.MID. -- Chucktalk Giffen 06:13, 28 June 2008 (PDT)

Thanks, Chuck. I've already posted them in a works page. Johnhenryfowler 08:54, 28 June 2008 (PDT)

New editions - revisions

Hi John. Great to see all the new editions by Sabine popping up. Just a note to say that where you are adding an updated edition (such as for Salve Regina a 11 (Marc Antoine Charpentier)), where the original edition exists, there shouldn't be 2 sets of CPDL numbers, and 2 entries. Simply use the original entry and update the links to point to the new files and put a note under "edition notes" to say that it's been revised and give the date. This is all explained on this help page. Thanks! --Bobnotts talk 08:38, 28 June 2008 (PDT)

Hi Bob, I wasn't sure but what the new posting was a different scoring, and I was going to check them side-by-side to makes sure they weren't different (say with a different Key, different voicing, different accompanyment, etc... Johnhenryfowler 08:58, 28 June 2008 (PDT)

The two Charpentier editions above are different, in that old one is a condensed score, and the new one is a full score. -- Chucktalk Giffen 22:24, 28 June 2008 (PDT)