Talk:As on the night (Orlando Gibbons)

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(Song NN)

Both the original page name As on the night (Song 46) (Orlando Gibbons) and As on the night (Song 47) (Orlando Gibbons) that I moved it to are causing confusion. On reflection I think As on the night (Orlando Gibbons) might be better than either, as only CPDL #20816 uses Gibbons' tune SONG 47 entire (with the refrain from "A song of joy", Wither's hymn 47) and CPDL #61786 borrows SONG 34 for Wither's original refrain "Their Angells-Caroll sing wee then". By the way, I've come here via The Hymnes and Songs of the Church (George Wither), which I had rather have called The Hymnes and Songs of the Church (Orlando Gibbons) because of a personal bias ;-) and which has another SONG 47, Drop, drop, slow tears a 4 (Orlando Gibbons). Richard Mix (talk) 02:28, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Richard − Part of the mess comes, I suppose, from the edition of the Hymnes published by John Russel Smith in 1856 (see IMSLP#316762), where all of Gibbons' music lies in a separate part without words, and where that very music (f a f c'...) is not ascribed to SONG 47 (as in the original 1623 edition) but to SONG 46 − for that purpose it has been altered, to provide music with the chorus. Was SONG 47's music already widely used for SONG 46? We suppose so, because most of Wither's Song are to be sung on a Gibbons tune made for another one of the same meter. Our version #61786 aims to be better than the 19th and 20th cent. ones! and closer to the intentions of the authors.
Yet it remains that the number of each of these SONGES should remain linked to Wither's text, which has a clear precedence over the music. As on the night is not SONG 47 − and of course Drop, drop, slow tears as well (which has fewer legitimity, the text being alien to Wither's Hymnes). Pierre chepelov (talk) 10:15, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
Hi Pierre,
I salute your edition and its attractive solution to Wither's 88 88 L.M. refrain. I disagree of course about clear precedence: after all, we're not talking about As on the night (Song 46) (George Wither), and many other poets are commonly sung to Gibbons' tunes, legitimately or not. Having the number in the page name would make it clear that "Oh my Love, how comely now", "Jesu benignissime", "Jesu, grant me this I pray" and "Oh thou Lord, thou God of might" all use SONG 13 (By the way, I use small caps to distinguish SONG 47, Gibbons' tune from "Song 47", Wither's hymn text, a convention that might be specific to English-language hymnology.)
You haven't said yet what you think of As on the night (Orlando Gibbons). Suitable enough? Richard Mix (talk) 00:23, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
Hi Richard,
About the edition, thank you for your comments!
Thanks also for the tip I didn't know about the small caps convention. Well, as you suggested, I think that As on the night (Orlando Gibbons) is maybe the best acceptable solution. Pierre chepelov (talk) 14:43, 9 December 2020 (UTC)