Talk:Pater Noster

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"Who art" and related controversies

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Proper English usage requires agreement between subject and verb. "...Who art..." is incorrect grammar, since the familiar, "Thou," is the proper subject for "art," the familiar conjugation form of the verb, "to be." To avoid this awkwardness, it is much simpler to render the translation as, "Our Heavenly Father...." Please note that of all the translations offered in this article, only the German translation has proper agreement between the subject and verb: "Vater unser, der Du bist im Himmel,..." ("...der Du bist..." = "...[the] Thou art..."). There is no literal English equivalent. The Dutch translation avoids the problem by using the equivalent of "Our Heavenly Father...."

The author of these comments doesn't seem to understand the use of ellipsis in the English language, nor of the fact that the Lord's Prayer directly addresses the Father. Indeed, the pronoun "Who" refers to the elliptically omitted "Thou", and there is no other grammatical inconsistency. The comments on the German translation are also in error. "der" translates as "who" (not "the" as the author mistakenly construes), and the phrase "der Du bist in Himmel" translates as "Thou who art in heaven". -- Chuck_talk Giffen_♫ 23:17, 2 May 2008 (PDT)